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Forum:Recruitment via the wiki
Discussion I've noticed a number of pages that include recruitment blurbs in an OOC section -- @mail ... to join. I don't believe that this information meets the standard of encyclopedic information, is better suited for in-game systems like +ideas or the bboards, and should be removed. I think we've talked about this before, with Hawke mentioning something about articles not being home pages, but I can't recall exactly where. It's a fine line, but I think statements to the effect of "this unit is NPC only" or "this unit is open to PCs" are acceptable. -- Xerxes 03:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC) Here's an example off a page from one of the Imperial squadrons. I'm not sure where this fits, but it hasn't been removed... perhaps there is a way of informing folks of how to join instead of making at an advertisement? -- Nasa eagle 03:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC) I think my personal litmus test would be the following: Is it information about the subject of the article or is it a message directed at the reader? The latter should be removed or restated. The former is usually acceptable. -- Xerxes 03:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC) I agree with this. Unfortunately, for some people, this is the only tangible way aside from posting an +idea that they can recruit. It's been a problem in the NR for a long time. Fortunately, Arise is helping to fix our recruitment problems (such as the OOC Nexus Info that is from 1996 and tells people to talk with Sarc_Sennex to join GroundOps). I'll have no problems removing recruitment info from pages, but would like to wait until she's done with her updates. -- SW1 Kyle 12:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC) :--PS: Errr, I could rewrite them too. Egads. Sorry - it's early. -- SW1 Kyle 12:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC) :-Notes of blatant recruitment should not be included on articles. The wiki is to serve as a compendium or sourcebook, not a means of advertising. I also try to keep MUSH/game commands out of articles as much as possible, instead relegating them to dedicated pages (:category:Guides|Guides). Also, keep in mind that, at the ethos of this Wiki, the information will, theoretically, outlast the game itself. So, putting advertisements and recruitment information is an exercise in futility. I also have an itty-bitty gripe regarding stating who is the FH or OH or AFH or AOH at any given time, because that too is volatile information (or, likely to change suddenly). However, I can be at ease with it if for the reason it indicates who the reader should be seeking out if they were to pursue further information. : Another reason for "no recruitment or advertising on wiki" is a matter of fairness. The whole point of a wiki is to treat all content, no matter the source, fairly and equally, regardless of the source or subject (I know this is an ideal, and is prone to fluctuation). I don't want there to be an escalation of advertising and recruiting solely to fill your business / organization / unit ranks. If advertising and recruiting statements are kept to the MUSH, then the admin can overwatch them far easier and more directly. : I make a point of removing any recruitment or advertising statements as I encounter them. If any got by me, and you're using them as examples of inconsistency, then I'm sorry — they got by me, and they shouldn't be there. I can't be here all the time. -- Hawke / Rtufo 16:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC) The purpose of the forum post is to make sure that this is dealt with as a wiki-wide policy, rather than individually on each article. If we proactively establish and publish standards and expectations on the right way to do things, we won't have to chase down and react to people doing things just because they're uninformed. We need to think about what information is acceptable. I too hesitate to include information time-dependent information (check out the completely out-of-date OOC section on the CorSec article), not only is it non-encyclopedic, it's a maintenance issue. -- Xerxes 17:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC) Blatant recruiting messages may be out-of-style, but I don't mind some OOC point-of-contact info on pages, especially higher-level archival info of which players held administrative positions in the past (example: the Galactic Emperor succession is super nifty), or for smaller player-run orgs for which there is no public directory system on the MUSH. Yeah, +idea exists, but it's sorta clunky. When point-of-contact info for a group changes on the game, updating the p-o-c info on the wiki would provide a natural opportunity to update the OOC administrative archive -- just plunk the old person in the list. --Lolkje 17:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC) *To what "OOC administrative archive" are you referring? My concerns about maintenance issues aren't really focused on larger groups like the Empire, where you're reasonably sure that a point-of-contact / administrator will have a successor. The maintenance issues are really going to be more common in the smaller groups where the leader moves on, stops doing updates, and no one takes over for them... like the CorSec article. Twila left, then Bailey moved on to another job, and now the article is completely out-of-date. -- Xerxes 03:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC) *As I said previously, if it's information ABOUT the org (Lolkje is president of the Lolkje Fan Club.), I'm in favor. If it's phrased AT the reader (Ask Lolkje about how to join the Lolkje Fan Club.), I think it needs to be re-written. Is that acceptable for inclusion in / as a policy statement? -- Xerxes 03:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC) **By OOC administrative archive, I mean things like the Succession template. Right now, we have a succession template that can be applied to character articles. Perhaps we could make a new Succession template that can be added to organization articles. I.E. JoeBob is the Baron Administrator of Cloud City. Former Baron Administrators are: Delila Dmitri, Lando Calrissian. I agree that Ask JoeBob how to open a shop on Cloud City is inappropriate. --Lolkje 17:08, 12 April 2007 (UTC) * Taking a shot at summarizing the comments into policy statements in the Policies section below. In order to keep the area below clear, please continue to make your comments up here, referring to particular items by number. Once we feel we've got a good list of them, we'll ratify by a consensus vote. -- Xerxes 17:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC) **Looks good to me! Although I feel a bit funny about having a Fan Club in this example. How about a Book Club instead? ;P --Lolkje 18:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC) A thought - since sometimes it's a right pain in the thing which supports you as you RP to figure out who's in charge of what, and a Succession template exists (does it?), perhaps the ability to link to a list of 'who's in charge of what' could be implemented with such a list residing in the OOC cache in which MUSH terms and administrator info reside. A single list so that updating it isn't a treasure hunt around the articles. Then simply linking 'head' or 'leader' or some other appropriate term to the list/entry would be usable in lieu of including such in articles themselves. I'm the sort who likes the living feel of present-tense, in-universe entries but value information availability and think this might provide the necessary bridge. - Alienplayer 06:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC) * So, let me see if I understand what's being suggested... We've currently got a Succession template intended for character articles that lists: Preceded by, (Character), Followed By. Lolkje has suggested a new succession template for organizations: All preceding, Current. And Gimel is suggesting that we take all the organization succession information and consolidate it into more accessible views. Would there be any special way of keeping the information between the consolidated views and the organization articles in synch? Is that just a maintenance concern, i.e. if it needs to change, change it in both places? -- Xerxes 11:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC) **No, I see what Gimel's saying, and I think I like it. Instead of having these OOC blurbs posted on every page from ISB to New Republic StarOps, we just make a page that contains a list of every faction/org's points of contacts. Then, on the aforementioned pages, we can just slap on a very simple, basic template that says something like this: "Looking for someone to contact regarding (title of article) in the game? Find out who is running the game's organizations and factions by clicking here." That'd make it clean, put it all in one place, and avoid the OOC clutter we find on the pages. (Though I'll note - I still want to leave the OOC info on the NR's pages until I can get it copied into my new NRINFO command, or my head might explode) -- SW1 Kyle 14:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC) ***I can support this. The accessibility is obvious. It lowers the maintenance requirement (many pages to one centralized page). We have to make sure that we word things so that it fits for more than just official (coded) factions / orgs, i.e. ad hoc groups (pirates!), business, planetary contacts(?), etc. Just to clarify we're talking about OOC information only. What do we call the new page? -- Xerxes 14:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC) ****Err, how about Contacts? - Alienplayer 14:52, 13 April 2007 (UTC) ****Some suggestions I have are: MUSH Contacts, Faction Contacts (with a redirect to that page coming from Organization Contacts, or MUSH Faction/Org Contacts. I could just make a MUSH Contacts page and start porting some info over to it, and we can categorize it and pretty it up as we go? If people like this idea, I'd go ahead and get on it myself unless someone beats me to it? Now that the concept is out there, I'd really like to get the NR's faction pages cleaned (so I can get it into NRINFO in game and be done with that too). -- SW1 Kyle 13:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC) ****I think the MUSH Fac/Org Contacts is probably a best idea; one simple one that is universal and can be updated when things change regarding recruitment. -BTW I removed any additional OOC note recruitments that I found. EDIT- Although I think that we should skip a list of recruiters though, since that can change quite often due to player inactivity, switching factions; etc. --Dareus 17:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC) *****I'm going to go ahead and start work on a MUSH Faction/Org Contacts article. If any administrators want to move it or tweak the way things are written, be my guest. -- SW1 Kyle 12:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC) ******The problem I have with this name is that it's implies too narrow a purpose (limited to Faction / Org contacts). The page, and title, should be generalized and hold the contact information for "...more than just official (coded) factions / orgs, i.e. ad hoc groups (pirates!), business, planetary contacts(?), etc.". I wouldn't object to us starting the page under this name, but we want to keep the purpose in mind and at some point move it to a more appropriate title. -- Xerxes 12:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC) ******Yep, yep. Total agreement here. We can develop it as it goes and change the name whenever/however we want. -- SW1 Kyle 12:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC) OOC Information If you are at all interested in being an Imperial Pilot, or officer, please feel free at any time to page or @mail any of our Imperial Recruiters. There are spots open for pilots, and we're always happy to have new Imperial Members. A current list of Imperial Recruiters can be obtained in the Imperial Organization room as well as the Empire Faction information room (In the New Player Nexus) by typing LIST RECRUITERS; or if it's more convenient, just yell out on the channel and someone should be able to help you. Dante is currently in charge of this squadron and may be contacted if there are any questions. Policies In order to keep this section clear, please make your comments in the discussion section above, referring to particular items by number. # DO include OOC information about an organization, e.g. Lolkje is the current president of the Lolkje Fan Club. # DO NOT include messages directed at the reader, e.g. Ask Lolkje about how to join the Lolkje Fan Club. # DO NOT include information specific to recruitment, e.g. Xerxes is authorized to recruit members of the Lolkje Fan Club. # DO NOT include OOC advertising, e.g. Hawke sells Lolkje Fan Club T-shirts, and they're great! # DO NOT make reference to in-game commands / systems, e.g. +idea, BBoard, page, or @mail.